No doubt about it, there was a colossal failure of leadership, but let's not be stingy with the blame -- there's enough to go around.

1) The Mayor of New Orleans knew his city. He knew there were 100,000 people without cars. When they knew people HAD to evacuate, why didn't he have every school bus and city bus drive around with a police car saying on the megaphones "Get in the bus or you will DIE in this hurricane"

2) The Governor of Louisiana is actually in charge of the National Guard. The constitution prohibts the deployment of the Army on American soil during peacetime for law-enforcement. So no matter what the President wants to do, he should be following the Governor's lead, because she's in charge of her state.

You mentioned a Guilianni moment. If Louisiana had a Governor as capable as Pataki, or if New Orleans had a mayor as capable as Guiliani, we'd be seeing alot of different stories on the news. I'm not defending Bush here, but there had to be a huge failiure of leadership before it ever got to the point that Bush's leadership was needed. The way the country is supposed to work, the Governor should be in charge of her own state. I don't blame him for waiting for her to do something, come up with a plan, or tell people how to implement the plan. I think the Federal government assumed that the People who had lived with this pending problem might have had SOME organized idea how to go about dealing with it.

In the end you see what happened -- there were resources, but they were COMPLETELY misused. I blame the mayor and the governor for the initial 3 days of fuck ups, and I blame Bush for not recognizing earlier what idiots the mayor and governor and mayor were. Now that he has cut them out of the loop, things seems to be proceeding well.

P.S. Michael Moore is an entertainer. I put as much creedance in his words as I do in Charleton Heston's

The mayor and governor did try to lead. Bush ignored. Here's their request from 8/28.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

It references requests for assistance from 8/26, two days before the hurricane hit. Nothing was done. Funny how when a swing state like Florida got hit by Hurricane Charlie two months before the election, Bush was on the ground the next day handing out candy to children.

And even if the mayor and governor are 100% to blame, how does that excuse the fact that the federal government did nothing for days? How can the governor take blame for not calling the National Guard when most of them are chasing ghosts in Iraq? If it was so easy for the mayor to have school buses pick up 100,000 citizens from all over the city, then why did it take a week for the federal government to pick up 25,000 sitting at the centrally located convention center?

How can anyone respect Bush when he said he didn't realize the potential for devistation when it was he how was doing public service announcements on New Orleans TV last Sunday telling people that the worst hurricane in the city's history was on its way?

You mention 9/11 - did the federal government give NY a week to "do something, come up with a plan"??? No, the military was in the city that day. The mayor of New Orleans doesn't have access to C130 jets or Coast Guard cutters or Navy helicopters. Those are the resources that were NEEDED, not "COMPLETLY misused". We can drop 15,000,000 leaflets over Iraq telling them how great Bush is, but we can't communicate with people trapped in their attics. We can drop 40,000 Tons of food off in Indonesia 36 hours after the Tsunami, but we can't drop a fucking box of sandwiches on the I-10 overpass? Unreal.

As a former resident of the central gulf coast, I can state from experience that while the response by the state government was subpar, the federales response was mind-boggling in its ineptitude. I've been through several major hurricanes (Frederick in '79, for one) and there were national guard AND federal troops in the devastated areas within 24 hours.

Before the hurricane hit, I had a conversation with a friend who lived in NO for several years and she predicted that they would need 50,000 body bags for the dead. I thought she was exaggerating. Now I'm not so sure. I was stunned that the mayor of NO waited until Sunday morning before issuing a mandatory evacuation order, as coastal residents usually get that order the second the hurricane warnings are posted, because of the problems associated with evacuating beaches that have only one road off the beach. NO has more roads out of the city, but it had a lot more people- you could see the deaths coming simply by the delayed order.

The governor of a state cannot utilize federal troops in any way. State resources are always, always coordinated with the guiding assistance of FEMA in these situations, so I'm willing to lay down good money that the Lousiana governor's actions (or lack thereof) were partly because of what FEMA was telling her she should do. After all, they're the experts in hurricane disasters....right?

The federal government should have been in there within 24 hours. There is no excuse for it. FEMA knows what to do, or used to know before they got shoved into Homeland Security, and they didn't do it. Period.

I've been saying for a couple of days that I'm proudest of the response of my hometown, Pensacola, Florida. Devastated in last year's Hurricane Ivan, they organized relief supplies and personnel and got to places in Mississippi before anyone else. The residents of Pensacola, having just gone through a bad blow, knew what needed to be done and acted. How could FEMA not do the same?

After all, officials in FEMA have nice, safe, comfy homes. One year later, half of the interior of my parents' house is still gutted, because they're still in thier contractor's queue. My mom was at her church two days after Katrina hit, however, helping to load a trailer filled with water and other supplies. I ask again: where was FEMA?

As a CURRENT resident of south Louisiana, let me tell you Blanco and Nagin let people die. There should have been no one left in New Orleans. Everyone knew by 3:30pm CT on Friday before landfall that the Hurricane was coming. The mandatory evacuation order came Sunday morning at about 7am CT. Why the 39 1/2 hour delay?

I'll tell you why. Nagin and Blanco got blamed for a premature and largely incompetant evacuation of New Orleans last year when Ivan approached. Then the storm missed and people got all pissy.

So this year, Blanco and Nagin hoped against hope that the storm would miss... and waited to the end to make the call... never doing anything about the hundreds of thousands of poor people stuck in the city. The best they could do was run city buses around town asking people to go to the Superdome. A place that would wind up being the last place some people ever lived.

The federal response since has been a national disgrace... but many of these people did not need to die had a more competant leader taken charge of New Orleans and the surrounding parishes.

And xopher... did you read the "request" from the Governor? She requested post disaster funding assistance and debris removal. She never asked for any evacuation assistance at all. That letter was a formality, nothing more.

In my mind the "post disaster" clock starts ticking the minute the hurricane passes through, not days later. The National Weather Service warning that came on Friday at 3:30 covered 800 miles of coastline because they had no idea where Katrina was headed. Are you saying that every town and city within that 800 mile range should have evacuated? And gone where? That's unrealistic. I'm not saying that things couldn't have been handled better on the front end, but the post response should result in firings and resignations, not praise from the president.

Blaming Nagin and Blanco is like pulling up on a car accident and not helping because the person should have never driven through that stop sign.

Actually, Xopher, they should have begun to prepare for evacuation when the Hurricane Watch was issued. The standard evacuation orders on the gulf coast in a hurricane is for "low-lying and coastal areas", of which New Orleans is both.

Where could they have gone? Away. Montgomery, Birmingham, Jackson, Little Rock, Memphis...the list goes on and on. It is fairly standard for shelters to open up in cities that are inland from hurricanes for those fleeing a storm. As shelters fill, more and more are opened up further and further north. This is not unrealistic: it happens in every hurricane.

Could the mayor of New Orleans have predicted this tragedy? You betcha. Louisiana State University ran an exercise for FEMA fairly recently they called "Hurricane Pam", laying out all the potential and probable results of NO being hit by a Category 3 or above storm. Included in the scenario were stranded residents and escalating violence. No one should have been surprised by the breakdown in order, because our own government predicted it.

Blanco might not have caused the diaster, but he's still responsible for the deaths that occurred when people couldn't evacuate his city.

I agree with you. The preperation could have, should have been handled better. My point is that a lack of preperation is no excuse for zero response from the federal government. Paul's posting is in regards to Bush's leadership in this situation and that's what I'm responding to. I think it's obvious to most Americans that a city under sea level is going to flood in a hurricane. The point that so many people are failing to concede is that something could have been done to help the people were were left, stuck, or chose to stay behind. If you think that the mayor and governor should take the heat based on how things were predicted to play out, fine. But people should take more heat for how things actually did play out. CJ says that Blanco and Nagin let people die. Bush, stopping the emergency air delivery of food so he can get in his photo op helicopter ride, let people die. The decision to wait four days to bring in troops let people die. The FEMA director, saying on national TV on Thursday night that he had no idea that people were at the convention center, let people die. Lack of federal leadership let people die.

Catch the WaPo, Xopher?

Apparently Bush was negotiating with Blanco to take over the situation on Friday evening but Blanco said no, the state could handle it.

And the state is supposed to evacuate low-lying areas 48 hours from landfall... NO was evacuated about 16 hours. The mistake is obvious.

My view of the thing is pretty simple. Whoever was responsible at the front end for assessing the hurricane and making the decision about whether and how vigorously to evacuate, it was almost immediately obvious afterwards that there was a massive humanitarian problem emerging in New Orleans. So, one. If the Federal goverment had the wherewithal to assist, and failed to do so, it was shameful, almost inhuman, neglect. (I'm unimpressed by procedural arguments like, "it's up to the governor or the mayor to make a phone call to FEMA for assistance". FEMA's not a girl waiting for a guy to call for a prom date. They can pick up the phone and call to see if their help is needed, when it's so obvious that it is.) Two. If the Federal government did *not* have the wherewithal to help - no food, no water, no trucks, no ships, no personnel, no mobile hospitals, no engineers, no helicopters - then what in *God's* name has all this money for terrorist response been getting spent on?

This sort of thing ain't my bag, baby.

One book, "Swedish-made Penis Enlargers And Me: This Sort of Thing Is My Bag Baby", by Austin Powers.

God I hate politics.

I'd rather save the blame game until I see every last living person removed. You know there are still people waiting.

I get sick to my stomach as I contemplate this entire tragedy. Luckily my roommates got out before the storm, but they had cars --and options. So many didn't. Why they couldn't take some buses for folks who didn't have ways to get out on their own, I'll just never understand that. Whether the "they" is the city, state or federal, I could not care less. So many opportunities to save lives and I think there is enough blame to go around for all. The mayor left the city for Baton Rouge --and maybe that was for the ability to command things better, but christ almighty...its a sad story when Harry Connick Jr. is walking around reassuring scared people and the folks "in charge" are missing. Again, not blaming any one person...I blame them all.

I don't know how you could live with yourself if you were a person whose decision or lack of decision contributed to ONE person dying -let alone thousands. Shame on them all, I say.

The Mayor left the city while there were people there? I cannot imagine Guiliani doing that. If there was a "shelter of last resort" and he was ORDERING people to stay there -- why the hell wasn't HE there? Christopher, I can't decide if you're a troll or not. These are some very strange quotes from you:

How can the governor take blame for not calling the National Guard when most of them are chasing ghosts in Iraq

I assume by now you've looked that up and you know the percentages of LA National Guard that are in Iraq, and you realize how wrong your statement is. Any chance you'll be issuing a retraction about that part?

People connecting the response to this hurricane with the War in Iraq are as crazy as the people who connect the War in Iraq with 9/11. The War is big and devisive.

And of course you're admitting that the governor did NOT call out the National Guard, when it was within her power to do so.

...Blaming Nagin and Blanco is like pulling up on a car accident and not helping because the person should have never driven through that stop sign...

Blaming and not helping are 2 different things. The Feds did not intervene because they were PROHIBITED by the Constitution. Please reread the 10th amendment. The Federal government is available in terms of resources and advisory capacity, but they CANNOT lead! Nor would you want them to! Who knows a state best? Washington, or the locals? Washington's response effort was available beforehand and during the entire crisis, but they did not want to usurp the rightful power of the Governor.

Again from the Constition (I'm paraphrasing a bit): the Armed Forces of the United States are prohibited from acting as law enforcement within the border of the United States during peace time.

Think what a horrible thing it would be if it COULD happen the way you are describing. A tsunami (heavens forbid) hits the East Coast, Manhatten is engulfed, and "The Feds" tell Bloomberg and Pataki that the New Yorkers will not be in charge.

Remember how your High School History teacher told you that the Civil War was not about slavery, but about State's rights? Turns out he/she was right. The Constitution expressely describes that the Federal Government is only in charge of a very few things and expressly prohibits the Gov't from MANY activities. For example, there is no national drinking age. Why? Because that is a power that is left to the states.

A leader leads. If Nagin wanted results, why didn't he make his headquarters the Super Dome? How could he in good conscience sleep in a bed at night?

What really happened is that Nagin and Bianco screwed up, and instead of shouldering the blame and working to help people, they immediately began to blame others! If they wanted to, they could call more attention to the problems by actually working on solving them. Instead they blamed the President.

Although I am no Bush fan, I respect the fact that he has NOT personally pointed the finger back (though certainly some of his defenders have). Instead he did indeed make things happen. Too late for my tastes -- but he did swear and oath to uphold the Constitution, which means that until he was able to get the Governor to "coordinate" relief efforts, any action he took would have been AGAINST THE LAW. I blame Bush less than I blame the local authorities. Could the feds have prevented more loss of life if they acted sooner? Almost assuridly, but I'd honestly rather the government respect the law than doing what "someone" thinks is right, and violating the rights of the people. Today it's hurricane relief, tomorrow it's saving unborn babies. The Feds don't have the right to get involved in the State's business. Cross that bridge for any reason, and suddenly the Fed is in EVERYTHING.

great post fishdan.

A few other things:

- Monday night, most people thought New Orleans was in the clear. No major flooding, most damage to the east and everyone is saying to themselves "thank God - it could have been much worse"...on Tuesday the levees break and all hell breaks loose. So the real sh*t didn't hit until Tuesday - that's when people realized what was going on and started making requests...

- Comparing the efforst in NO to the post Ivan efforts is impossible - Ivan didn't leave one of the 20 largest cities in the US underwater - it left a big swath of destruction, but people weren't stuck in their homes for 4 days. You simply can't compare the two of them in the slightest.

- Plans probably also weren't made to worry about f'ing lowlife thugs shooting at rescue helicopters, police, hospitals etc. These people should all be shot on sight.

- Read the city of New Orleans disaster emergency plan. The mayor is 100% in charge of everything as far as the evacuation goes - his fault for calling it late, his fault for not getting buses for the poor people to get out of town, his responsibility to have a police force that doesn't desert....

Lots of blame to go around on this one...but to blame Bush first and foremost is sillines...

Thanks for the history lesson fishdan. I was hoping you would get to the part about Grover Cleveland's views on the silver market. I was a little surprised that a constitutional scholar would neglect to bring a little bit of fine print in the constitution regarding the president's authority to call up the National Guard in times of war or emergency. Now emergency isn't explicitly defined, so we may not agree that Katrina was an emergency. However, history shows that past president's more often agreed with my view of the term emergency. You may recall President Washington (aka the Father of our Country) calling up and leading the miltias (aka National Guard) of four states back in 1794 during the Whiskey Rebellion. Not sure why anyone would rebel against whiskey, but Washington thought it was enough of an emergency to command the National Guard without the consent of the Governors. And for the record, 1794 was a year of "peace". You probably also recall Nat Turner. Fearful that the Free States would be supportive of old Nat, the federal government called up the militias of all states to bring back order. I can go on and on, through Indian conflicts to a dime size leak in a dam on the Kennebec river in Maine. The President is able to help without a signed permission slip from the local government. The Constitution is a tricky document to understand, so I'm not going to ask for a retraction of your "Bush was prohibitied from helping" comment. I think it's fairly certain that Bush wouldn't have been thrown in the county jail for doing his job.

"Comparing the efforst in NO to the post Ivan efforts is impossible - Ivan didn't leave one of the 20 largest cities in the US underwater - it left a big swath of destruction, but people weren't stuck in their homes for 4 days. You simply can't compare the two of them in the slightest."

Yes, I can! My point was that federal troops were in place in Pensacola and the surrounding 'swath of destruction' within 24 hours. Ivan didn't affect as many people as Katrina has, obviously, but the issue is not how long it took- takes- to rescue survivors or rebuild infrastructure, but that the federal government showed up promptly for Ivan (and many others, see: Charley, Agnes, etc) and Katrina.

The military keeps troops at readiness for exactly this type of situation, rotating this responsibility between current stateside battalions; the 101st Airborne was called up on Friday and was in NO on Saturday. Why they weren't called before then is a subject that is going to be discussed for a long time, but ultimately what matters is that they weren't, and people died.

FYI- The President of the United States has almost unlimited power in case of a national emergency, and the President can decide on his (her) own what constitutes an emergency by utilizing a well-known constitutional bypass called the Presidential Executive Order. President Bush was NOT prohibited from suspending state authority, he was NOT prohibited from federalizing the National Guard, and he was NOT prohibited from leading.

My point was that getting into a city with 10 feet of water in it is a lot more difficult than getting into a city with lots of trees down. Regardless of that...

The next question is - who is supposed to call in the guard here? Obviously the president did a tremendous job during Ivan, didn't he? Or will the record show that perhaps Governor Bush called in the guard during Ivan? I have a feeling that the Bush admin did nothing different during Ivan than they did during Katrina.

It's certainly true that a President can issue an Executive Order or have a presidential finding, essentially giving his administration the ability to do almost anything -- Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. As you said: The President is able to help without a signed permission slip from the local government.

However, by you suggesting that Bush could haved taken charge, you are admitting that he was NOT in charge initially. As Lucy points out he COULD NOT take charge without an Executive Order. And this is the fundamental point: Bush cannot take charge without usurping the Governor's powers and essentially removing the Governor from the chain of command. And I am PLEASED that he would not do that against her will. When people say they wish the Feds had done more, the don't understand the full process. The Governor says she needed resources. I suspect if she had said "Mr. President, I need 50 helicopters to evacuate St. Louis Hospital right now" she would have gotten it. If she'd had a specific plan it would have been implemented.

In this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

they detail some of the negotiations that went on beforehand. From the article:

Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law

So I can understand Bush being reluctant to TAKE control from the governor when she had objections to the idea. Did Bush have the authority to take control away from the Governor? Sure -- as recently as Brown vs. the Board of Education, the President has Nationalized the Guard to enforce the law. The question here is -- should he have done that immediately?

I regret the loss of life, but I think the President was obligated to let the locals try to run things. After they proved themselves incompetant, the Feds moved in. To this day, I have not heard anything resembling a plan from the Mayor or the Governor. And I think that blaming anyone is really a worthless exercise in this post-disaster time. I just think that Blaming Bush is merely people taking advantage of a tragic situation for some minor political points in some twisted game.

I do believe FEMA has been atrocious, and I'd like to see that guy (Brown) quickly removed from office, and his inadequacies detailed. But, I don't really believe that you can Blame Bush for one moron -- sometimes morons don't reveal themselves until time of crisis