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Thursday, September 25, 2003

Sosa Bigger Than Mantle? You Cannot Be Serious
Previous to Thursday, it was hard to pick out the dumbest thing ever published on ESPN.com's Page 2. Maybe it was when Derek Jeter was ranked the third-most overrated current athlete, citing his high salary (which admittedly is the highest for a four-time World Series champ who is also a merchandising and branding dream). Then the idiots ranked Yankee Stadium 21st among MLB ballparks, below the Florida Marlins' home, Pro Player Stadium, which got higher points for trading up on seat location. Hello! When the house is packed, it's hard to sneak up to the front row.

But Thursday's Daily Quickie takes the cake for idiocy. According to whatever genius writes it, "In 10 years, Sammy Sosa will be more highly regarded than Mickey Mantle."

Then I read this line and almost burst a blood vessel in my head: Regarding Mantle's myth... "His good luck to be on a Yankees dynasty (kind of like Derek Jeter)..."

Holy fucking shit, I haven't read anything so stupid since Gene Wojciechowski wrote off Syracuse in the NCAA hoops final, giving the title to Kansas and ignoring the fact that the Orangemen had just defeated two Big 12 teams ranked ahead of Kansas, making All-Americans look All-Ordinary in the process. Stupid, stupid column.

OK, back to baseball ... not only were Mantle and Jeter lucky enough to play for 11 (that's 11!) World Series champions, but they were both the best players on those dynasties. I've got too much to go on this Mantle-Sosa thing to spend too much time on Jeter, but let me remind you that his career batting average is .317 with enough at-bats to be halfway to 3,000 hits. Don't blame him because A-Rod and Nomar were born. He's still an all-timer at short. (In 1999, he hit .349, with 24 HRs, 102 RBIs, 134 runs and 19 SBs. The year after, only .339. This year, .320.)

Mickey Mantle's career stats | Sammy Sosa's career stats

Let me preface by saying that Sosa is a great player. A first-ballot Hall of Famer, but his is not the Mick, and here's why

Mantle won the Triple Crown in 1956 with numbers (.353 , 52, 130) that are staggering now and even more so then. Sosa has never led the league in batting, and has never led in homers and RBIs in the same season.

• Aside from that batting title, Mantle finished among the AL's top five in batting on five other occasions. Sosa had placed in the top 10 once — at No. 8 with a .328 batting average in 2001.

Mantle won three AL MVP awards, finished second three times and ranked in the top five in voting nine times. Sosa has won one MVP, finished second once and otherwise never finished in the top seven.

• Mantle, a feared slugger who was walked nearly 1,000 more times than Sosa, ranked in the AL's top five in on-base percentage 12 times. Sosa once.

Mantle led the league in homers four times to Sosa's two. He ranked in the top five in homers nine times to Sosa's eight. Mantle led the AL in runs six times, while Sosa has led his league thrice.

Mantle was an All-Star 14 years in a row and 16 overall. Sosa has made six All-Star teams, the same as Harold Baines.

Mantle hit two or more home runs in six different World Series, finishing with a record 18 overall. Sosa hit .182 with no home runs or RBIs in his only playoff series appearance, a three-game sweep by the Braves in 1998.

Sosa may have plenty of more productive years ahead of him. I really don't know how much cork he's got left for those "batting practice" bats. But it's clear Mantle dominated baseball in ways Sosa has not done.

What Sosa has absolutely no chance of doing is supplanting Mantle as a baseball icon. Wanna guess why center field for the Yanks is the No. 1 sports gig? I'll give you half of the equation: Joe. D. You figure out the rest. Mantle was the baseball icon in the '50s and '60s. No player drew more visiting fans from more remote areas of the country than he. Fathers used to call the Yankees to make sure the often-ailing slugger was in the lineup before trekking for hours, across state lines, so their sons could see him play.

When Mantle retired, he was third on the all-time home run list. (List of lifetime home run leaders through history). He was a god, not a cartoon character/poster child of the 'roid-raging new millennium.

As someone who has been active in the trading card industry since even before it's boom in the late '80s, I can say without equivocation that Mantle has always been the crown jewel of the collectible industry. With supply as a constant and demand the only variable, he buries all other players in terms of popularity. Ted Williams and Pete Rose were always big. Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa had that 1998 love-fest. But Mantle is in a class by himself — 55-year-old men still have his cards in their wallets — and he will not, as the Daily Quickie wrongly claims, be eclipsed by Sosa in the all-time Pantheon.

Category: Sports | Permalink | Post a Comment (14)


Comments: Sosa Bigger Than Mantle? You Cannot Be Serious

Easy there. Page 2 delights in baiting Yankee fans. Caple hasn't done 2 columns in a row without taking a cheap shot. I don't know anyone outside of Chicago that would even mention Sosa in the same breath as Mantle

Posted by Dave K at September 26, 2003 9:05 AM

I don't read Caple's crap, for obvious reasons. I have a friend who used to edit Page 2 and I used to ask him if they've written the 1,000th Yankees-sucks column yet.

But that Mantle-Sosa comparison sent me over the edge.

Posted by Paul Katcher at September 26, 2003 9:17 AM

Baseball is a waste of time.
Any sport that won't ban biproducts of steriods isn't a sport at all. And when it comes to Sosa vs Mantle....who really gives a fuck? We all know Bond's is better than either them ever was or is going to be.
Not that it matters because I repeat Baseball is a waste of time.

Posted by Shay at September 26, 2003 11:46 AM

Paul -- When I see stuff like "The Quickie's" statement that Sosa has passed Mantle, I don't even READ it, because I know it's full of shite.

(The guy who wrote the piece, I worked with him when I was at Real Fans.)

If anyone wants to argue who's better, just point out the rings. The Yankees (I neither love them, not hate them (It can be done!) but I do respect their history) have more than any other.

And the reason the Yanks have so many rings is Mantle and his supernatural ability to play through pain.

I don't know if you saw "61*" (Duh! I'm sure you did), but those guys repsected the Mick because he could always come through (torn this, ripped that, gaping hole there) regardless of his physical condition. Same with DiMaggio.

Though neither of these guys were A-OK in the human being department, on the field, they were there for their teammates when they were needed.

Anyway, you know most sportswriters don't let logic get in the way of a column.

Posted by Rob at September 26, 2003 12:13 PM

Page 2's best achievment to date has been yto name the Philadelphia Eagles cheerleaders as the hottest in the NFL this year.

Yankee bashing is a lifestyle for some and it certainly doesn't extend to just Red Sux fans either. Talked to an A's fan lately? Ah well, as a long suffering Knicks/SU Orangemen (until this year at least)/Buffalo Bills fan, I feel not a shred of guilt for being a Yankees fan. Not my fault most sportswriters weren't born in NY.

Posted by Henry at September 26, 2003 1:27 PM

Page 2 claims that the Philadelphia Eagles cheerleaders are the hottest this season? That must have been written by the same ass that wrote about Mantle & Sosa. Not only is he blind, he is a fucking idiot.

Posted by Cass at September 26, 2003 2:10 PM

Mick is the man and always will be (and I'm a Red Sox fan). Don't forget he accomplished all that while he was hungover most of the time too.

They will have to adjust the stats for HOF induction. Nowadays, guys are hitting 500 HRs as much as Britney Spears appears semi-nude in magazines (read = all the time!).

Mike Schmidt was an idol of mine as a kid and him hitting his career high of 48 homers seemed huge. Nowadays, 48 homers is nothing!

Posted by Chris at September 26, 2003 4:11 PM

Yeah, that was stupid. Mantle was the man, and he got his home runs at a time when it actually meant something to hit home runs (i.e. getting 50 a season was almost impossible back then). In 1951, Mantle led the league with 32 homers. 32! Today, that would be a good first half for a player. Mantle was a better player than Sosa can dream of being.

Posted by James at September 26, 2003 4:13 PM

Baseball is so watered down, the stats of today cannot be compared to stats of years ago due to the fact that the stadiums are smaller, rules have been changed, and with so many teams that suck, you are not really facing major league quality guys.

Posted by Richie at September 26, 2003 5:39 PM

I usually write something smartass here, but Sosa's corking ass is no Mantle. Not to mention look at pics of him earlier in his career, that dude is so fucking full of steroids it's not even funny.

Posted by In agreement! at September 27, 2003 11:22 AM

As much as I try to never miss a Yankee-bashing chance, that is one wack-ass article.

Posted by Ken Goldstein at September 27, 2003 3:41 PM

Sosa isn't even the most valuable player on his team, Mark Prior is. Sorry, but to be compared to Mantle in terms of greatness you can't be eclipsed by someone on your own team, let alone someone who is involved in only around 25 games a year.

Posted by Joe at September 28, 2003 6:53 PM

Page 2 was correct about Jeter being overrated. He gets a lot of focus for playing in the biggest market and for coming up at the time where everything came together in NY. Was he a part of it? In 1999, he was a major factor, the other years relied on a cast of members like Mussina, Pettite, Rivera, Giambi, Tino etc. Statistically, his range factor is far below the league average for his career. On the offense he slugs a career .463 which is lower than the Red Sox as a team this year. He does have a great career OBP. I won't mention Runs or RBIs because they are a factor of his supporting cast.

Now, it's logical to say that Jeter is a good player, but it's illogical to say he's a great one. Add a couple of 1999 seasons and I'll change my opinion.

Posted by Brian at September 29, 2003 1:43 AM

First off, now way Sosa is as good as Mantle as it stands now. Like you said, maybe if Sosa keeps up his pace for another 5 years, we can talk.

As for baseball in general, the Yankees today are the glaring example with what is wrong with the game. Thank God that football does not have the same rules baseball does with team payrolls. Imagine Al Davis with "Steinbrenner" like powers. Make it fair for everyone, then the fans will come back.

As for me I, along with most everyone outside of NYC, will be rooting for the Twins this week.

Posted by Ed at September 29, 2003 10:19 AM
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